Northern Rail

Hi Brunel,

welcome to the forums 

That sounds like a great idea. Have you seen the Northern rail charter about standing room? Here's what it had to say in 2004:

Customers should not have to
stand on our trains outside of peak times unless they choose to, and at peak
times for no more than 20 minutes. Where customers do need to stand, the
number doing so should not exceed 35% of the seating capacity.

and here's what the latest one i can find has to say (2007):

Northern plan services so that customers boarding trains should be able to obtain a seat in normal circumstances. Customers should not have to stand on our trains outside of peak times unless they choose to, and at peak times for no more than 20 minutes. Where customers do need to stand, the number doing so should not exceed 35% of the seating capacity.

Nice to see that in 3 years of operating the service, the target for improving one of the most annoying features of the service has not been moved one iota.

Whatever happened to 'continuous improvement'? What are the bodies who represent us doing about this?

The more complaints we can get, the better.

I just wanted to say two things and make one initial suggestion.

Firstly, to register a complaint about the over-crowding on the (delayed) 17.00 Manchester-Leeds train tonight.  Why doesn't Northern Rail be honest about this service and re-name it the Sardine Express?

Secondly, I want to say thank you to whoever set up this web-site & I hope that many other passengers will use it in order to harness our collective power.

My first suggestion is that it is about time that Northern Rail gave its customers the right to purchase a standing-only ticket at 50% of the usual price.  I normally travel in to Manchester between 7 and 8 am in the morning and it is often standing-room only from Littleborough onwards - for those of you who have to stand every day, why should you pay full fare?

Brunel

Same for me, although no additional carriages I'm afraid.

Why would the staff not approach us and let us know face to face? Even when we ask them it's like getting blood from a stone... are they under orders to make life as diffucult for us as possible? I think it is a distinct possibility they are worried about the response from the groaning crowd.

 

We had to move train twice tonight before we even got on it! I was waiting for the 17:00 from Manchester Victoria to Rochdale via Castleton. This train was displayed on the board system as due to leave platform 1 at the stated time, which after waiting ten minutes before and five minutes after, became clearer and clearer,was not going to happen.

We then all got told over the tannoy that the train was pulling into platform 3b, which is about a minute walk away in all the crowd, all the while the ticket guards still making sure we were all hearded and checked for tickets in the usual robotic fashion.

We then waited a futher 10 minutes for the train to arrive and through all the jostling, pushing and shoving, I managed to get on the train. Shortly after giving up my seat for a lady and stuffing myself between two ladies and a handrail in order that people manage to get on at all, the train tannoy then announces that the train we are on, may or may not be the one we need... So after much confusion and getting off the train and on again, I managed to ascertain that the train was indeed the one I wanted and finally at around 20 past 5, the massively overcrowded cattle cart left for home.

Hi MomHubbard,

somebody told me that the license to operate the service was awarded to Northern rail on the basis that they 'maintain' the existing stock rather than invest in additional. seems incredible given that the government is saying that they want to encourage people onto public transport.

If anybody can find anything confirming this online, that would be useful.

I've also been told that recomended carriage types are supposed to be used on certain services (some carriages are larger than others) - but that this often doesn't happen - again, this sort of info would be useful, since we could build up a picture of whether Northern Rail are even providing the service that they are contracted to.

Hi tonyford,

welcome to the forums.

we just recently got our sunday service back (Marsden -> Manchester) - i used it just this sunday gone and by the time it reached Manchester, the train was packed.

First the train was due to go from platform 3, then with no notice and only 3 or 4 minutes before the due departure time, it became apparent that it was actually going from platform 2.

The station staff must have known this for some time since people who actually asked the staff were making their way over to platform 2 at least 6 minutes before the display boards were changed.

By the time the change was made, a large number of passengers were aiting to board - so the announcement had the result of causing a virtual stampede for platform 2. Those unable to run (Older or pregnant people or people with prams) were then put in the position of not being able to get on the train - if the announcement had been made as early as possible and boards updated, then people could have boarded in an orderly fashion. Allowing trains to arrive at the last minute or making late announcements like this presents a health and safety issue and it's just a matter of time before someone gets hurt.

The train then stood completely chock full for at least 15 mins with no announcement about what was going on. When an announcement was made (barely audible in the train for some reason), it turned out that 2 additional carriages were being brought in.

Hi MomHubbard,

welcome to the forums 

unfortunately, the responses I've had when I've tried to get Northern rail to improve have actually made me even angrier than the problem i was complaining about.

Hopefully, if we can encourage as many people to record the problems they experience here in public, then we can get some kind of response.

Although it's immensely frustrating, i think if people can keep to the facts when recording these problems and keep as calm as possible, then it will make it more difficult for Northern Rail to dismiss the reports - so try to include the specific time and service details.

The other thing to try and do is to encourage everybody to keep recording each incidence as a separate complaint - so for example, each time a train is overcrowded register a complaint - not just once.

By making it as easy as possible to complain at this site, i hope that people will register their displeasure rather than putting up with it and this way, we can put pressure on Northern Rail to actually get something done.

Thanks for posting and welcome onboard

Due to the constant overcrowding on my line (Rochdale to Manchester via Castleton) I had to sent this email today... the trin times have just been jiggled, much to my dispair and the NO vote has been called so there is no real hope in sight... what can we do now? 

Good Afternoon,

 

I respect the fact that the person to who I am currently writing will no doubt be powerless to help me from where they are sitting, so to you I apologise in advance.

 

Now... with regard to the revised train times for the Rochdale to Manchester Victoria train from the earliest train in the morning (and no doubt many other unfortunate individuals), I would like to highlight the utter stupidity of the corporation to which you belong in the way they have devised this ridiculous revision to the timetable.

 

Firstly... before the train time changes of Monday the 15th 2008 on this line, it was very clear there was quite an obvious overcrowding problem. So before you bother to send out the crappy spiel you repeat to all other customers whose lives you have systematically wrecked over the last few months, I would like to point out, I have read a lot of their replies from you on the internet forums based on this problem. YES THAT IS HOW BAD YOUR SERVICE IS!!! We have to discuss it online to get anything done because all that seems to happen is we get FOBBED OFF! NO, a refund is NOT ACCEPTABLE, as the money is not the issue; it is MY time you are STEALING from me! I have bought a monthly ticket so that is not the issue! It is the fact that you are continually putting me in a difficult position with my employers as they are starting to think I am taking the Mick, when it is actually Northern Rail that are obviously the Mickey takers. So you as a company are responsible for my time management being called into question, when I am quite comfortably on that cold wet platform week in week out, 5 days a week with 10 minutes to spare without fail... the only failure in this chain seems to be your lot AGAIN!

 

Secondly... I buy a monthly ticket, although I have not read the terms and conditions attached to this ticket yet, you might like to run by me what the requirements of the contract that binds us are from your side? Are you responsible for providing a service once I have paid for it? If so, why have I, on more than 3 occasions been told to wait for the next train 3 times in a row on the same date? This being from a train supposedly picking me up at 7:15 in the A.M. and not getting on a train until around just after 8:00 A.M. The reason why? No room on the train! No room on a two carriage train... and this is after I get the same train every day from the same platform with the same monthly ticket I have bought for the same overpriced fee. Three trains in a row not stopping because they are full and the crazy thing is, I should have realised this would happen as I already have to STAND EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT EXCEPTION! Why am I paying for a service I am not receiving? Why am I also paying so much for a dirty, overcrowded, uncomfortable, miserable, slog to work every day? Where is my change?

 

Lastly... after you (likely not the person who is going to read this at first, so please do not take it personally) have now, in your infinite wisdom, changed the times of the trains, to run the second train of the day a full 10 minutes later leaving the gap between the first and second trains even more ridiculously far apart, as  it now leaves more time for the people in Rochdale that have a choice of trains, going through Milnrow and through Castleton towards Manchester, to crowd onto the trains and fill them up, leaving the train LATE and too FULL to get on for those people in Mills Hill or Moston. Today is the 15th of December 2008 and I was expecting a train at Mills Hill for 7:23, it came ten minutes late and then when it finally got to Moston, people were refused entry onto the train as it was TOO FULL!!

 

How about this, you disgusting tribe of cretins... why don't you spend money on one singular carriage extra per train on peak time trains? This is a simple remedy even a moron could put to task, yet the dimmest of the dim would seem to be able to outwit a Manager in your company as, yet again, the customer is put aside in order to line the pockets of the greedy shareholders. I want an explanation, and I am definitely going to approach trading standards with this issue, as there should be terms with regard to a contract that oblige you to make changes that allow people to make use of the service they have paid for! You are causing me and many people unnecessary suffering and you are putting undue strain on an already bleak economic situation. I do not want to LOSE MY JOB because of your lax attitude towards your product and your disregard for your obligation to your paying customers. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?!

Apologies for the language, however, I felt it represented how I felt at the time and I still believe that it is the best way to express the emotional content of what I am trying to get across...

any thoughts guys?

P.S. I am still awaiting the response from these lot, but you should read the nightmare responses people have been having in return for their cleverly crafted emails. I had no intention of wasting my time with these suckers any more than they already drain my life of any spare moments. So this letter is infact the first angry draft of the letter and I do not intend to change it in any way for that reason also.

Regards all x x x

Yes, with all the money you are not spending on the service, perhaps, it is possible with the cash from our extortionate fares, you could afford to buy ! single extra carriage per train during the peak hours instead of treating us like filth and cramming us on the pitiful 2 grotty auld beasts that we are barely able to get on day to day due to overcrowding!!! Idiots...